When 38 Spesh and Benny The Butcher teamed up on Stabbed & Shot in 2018, they were in the midst of a transformative year of their career. Hip-hop was witnessing the rise of one of the most important collectives of the past decade–Griselda–and upstate New York created a self-sufficient hub for independent rap. That year, Benny The Butcher emerged with his debut album, Tana Talk 3 while Spesh jumpstarted a second wind of his career with Son Of G Rap, a collaborative project alongside Kool G Rap that felt like a passing of the torch.
Although one of the most underrated releases from 2018, Stabbed & Shot has been a fan favorite among both artists’ core bases. Six years later, Spesh and Benny reunited for its sequel that captures their growth and chemistry over these past few years. For two MCs who’ve proven time and time again that they are practically unf*ckwittable on the microphone, Stabbed & Shot 2 was another exercise in consistency.
“We both have grew as individuals and men, and to still be able to have that skill level and honestly, surpass the first one, is really the most rewarding thing,” Spesh told HotNewHipHop over a Zoom call. “To show that we're not actually on a decline after all of these years is probably the most rewarding thing. To be able to listen to a solid body of work, and compare it to something that we knew would be very hard to even match, let alone top, so it's probably the most rewarding thing is to be able to see that we’re actually still, you know, improving.”
2024 alone has been the most visible year in their careers. For 38 Spesh, it revolved around the release of two strong bodies of work–Mother & Gun and Grafh's God’s Timing, which he produced–and for Benny The Butcher, it marked the end of a 22-month drought. He finally dropped his Def Jam debut, Everybody Can’t Go, along with two summer packs, Summertime Butch and Buffalo Butch Vol. 1, the latter of which contained the highly anticipated, “Buffalo Freestyle” featuring Drake. Similar to Spesh, Benny views this body of work as a testament to their journey in their respective careers and an homage to those who've paved the way for them.
“I'm saying to the 10th power, we've been influenced by [Styles P and Jadakiss],” Benny said. “But we are confident that we trailblazed this back-and-forth lane ourselves. We’re confident that people hold us high up there in the ranks. We confident that it's a back-and-forth duo who aspired to be better than me and Spesh.”
We caught up with 38 Spesh and Benny The Butcher (who jumped on the call halfway through) to discuss their latest joint project, their favorite back-and-forth verses from Styles P and Jadakiss, the Drake collab, and why they feel like the Jerry Rice and Joe Montana of hip-hop.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
HotNewHipHop: I feel like there's a little bit more vigor when you and Benny step in the booth together, but from your perspective, how's the energy different when you two are in the studio together, working on a project, compared to your solo projects?
38 Spesh: Well, it's definitely a more of a competitive sport thing, you know? It's more like a sport thing when we working together. We have to actually perform at a high level. Because, we both have a high skill level. So, you know, we both push each other to bring the best out of each other.
Benny described this as “pure intellectual street dialect mixed with hindsight.” Just considering that both of you kind of had some of your most visible bodies of works this year, what was the most rewarding part about seeing this project through?
38: It was a lot of growth from the last release. So, it was a lot of different rewards with dealing with this, from the actual understanding of the business–better understanding of the business–a better understanding of ourselves, a lot more to talk about and touch on. Because, you know, it’s six years later. We both have grew as individuals and men, and to still be able to have that skill level and honestly, surpass the first one, is really the most rewarding thing. To show that we're not actually on a decline after all of these years is probably the most rewarding thing. To be able to listen to a solid body of work, and compare it to something that we knew would be very hard to even match, let alone top, so it's probably the most rewarding thing is to be able to see that we’re actually still, you know, improving.
How long did this project take to bring to life in its entirety?
38: The idea and the concept was always there but once we started working–we work pretty fast. So I would say, you know, a few studio sessions. That's how we do. The first one, we made in three studio sessions. I say this one, we made probably four studio sessions.
In your interview on My Expert Opinion, you mentioned that consistency is how to separate yourself from the crowd as MCs. How did the consistency of your respective solo catalogs in the past few years help you two deliver a potent body of work after coming together again?
38: That's exactly what forms the body of work–the consistency. Like, you know, if we would have slowed down in any way, we wouldn't have been able to deliver the way that we actually deliver. The consistency is what helped us be able to elevate our penmanship; to actually be able to deliver a better project. This is a sport, so the more that you practice, the better that you're going to get. A lot of people slow down after they put out great bodies of work, or they let life get in the way, or whatever, things of that nature. We actually kept practicing and kept practicing and sharpening our skills and actually improved. So, you know, and that was due to the consistency. And if we had a lack of consistency, the project wouldn't sound as good. So consistency is one of the main key factors of why we was able to over deliver.
There are sports references scattered throughout your catalog but you’ve also garnered attention from many athletes. How does it feel knowing the music that you create reaches well beyond the audience that you’re speaking to?
38: It was a surprise at first, because I never imagined reaching–I only rap for the direct audience, and my main goal was to feed them, but [with] the authenticity and the high level of penmanship, I realized that when you're great at something, you're recognized by people that are great at what they do. You move on the same frequency. I’m the best at what I do, so the people that are the best at what they do are going to appreciate what I do because we're just the best at what we do.
I had to understand the reason why LeBron [James] is saying my stuff word for word, it’s just because we move at the same frequency. We operate at the same extreme frequency of being the best. So that's what made me understand, like, oh, “okay, even if I don't watch sports, or even if we come from these different backgrounds, it's just that actually, we all have the same thing inside,” and it's just the drive to be the best and the skill set to be the best. That's why they relate to it, more or less than just the music is, it's a high skill set when we just the best that do it, you know?
You didn’t produce anything on this project compared to the first installment of Shot & Stabbed. However, there’s the inclusion of Harry Fraud, Daringer, and other prominent names. What was the beat selection process like with this project?
38: Honestly, we go completely off-field. So it really don’t be in a producer's hands, it be in our hands. Usually, the producers be guessing and a lot of times, the producers be guessing wrong. Producers guess, they say, “Oh, I got this. That sounds [that’s] good for y'all,” and a lot of times they don't be on point. It be the ones that they don't think that we would love, that they sitting on, that they probably would skip past, that we like, “hold on, go back, play that one. That's the one.” And, you know, so it really be on us. We go into there, and we go completely off the way that the music makes us feel. Me and Benny kind of give each other a head nod. That's our sign of agreeing, like, “oh yeah, this is the one,” because we both moving off of the way it makes us feel. Each one of these beats was hand-picked completely off of feeling.
So, you know, it wasn't even about the name of the producers, because it could have been–some of these guys I'd heard of for the first time. Like a couple of producers on here, I actually heard for the first time. One of them is Asethic who I met off Instagram from just scrolling, and he had a sound–he produced “High Stakes”–and it was a sound that was actually in our vein. And I said, “This feels like us.” Another guy who produced the single “Brick Specials,” I never heard of before in my life, and I just came across him off of YouTube, and it was just a feel. So it wasn't really the producers actually coming up with ideas or concepts or sounds for us. It was just us searching for the actual sound that we love.
How would you describe the feeling of this project in that case? In terms of the head space that you and Benny were in.
38: We was in a hungry space, and it was a space that we had to get back to due to all of the success and how far we have actually travelled from six years. We found ourselves back in a hungry space, though, and it took us a while to get back to that space of hunger, but that was the space that we knew we had to be in in order to approach this project. That was the space that we were in, and that's why we were able to deliver like that, because we were in a space where we had something to prove.
You’re going three-for-three in 2024 with the release of God’s Timing and Mother & Gun. How do you think this project complements those releases in a way that’s similar to your 2018 run?
38: It's just a display of consistency, showing the people how diverse and how talented I actually am. God's Timing was displaying my production. Mother & Gun was displaying my lyrical ability and storytelling. And I feel like Stabbed & Shot is displaying my bar work, you know? So it all goes together, just showing how diverse and how talented I am.
Benny enters the Zoom call.
Benny, thanks for joining us today.
Benny: What's happening, baby? What I miss?
I wanted to ask you specifically: if you could compare yourself and Spesh to any duo in sports, who would it be?
BTB: I'm not going to lie, I'm going to have to say the obvious. The obvious is Shaq and Kobe. Jordan & Pippen. But I’m going to say, Jerry Rice and Joe Montana.
Elaborate. Why those two?
BTB: Two champions. Basically–
38: That was a good pick, bro, because I don't even watch sports like that. But 94–
BTB: [Laughs]
38: Listen, ‘94 49ers was my favorite team.
BTB: Real sh*t. Spesh is like the quarterback. He’s like the mastermind of this sh*t. He really just call the plays and I run the routes. It's like, when you working with somebody like him, all you got to do is be in the right place at the right time, and you gonna catch the ball, you gonna score. That's it. Run that right route and catch the ball. It's gonna be a touchdown. When I'm working with this man, half the work is already done. All I got to do is show up.
I asked Spesh this already but I wanted to know, from your perspective, how does Stabbed & Shot 2 complement your 2024 output so far?
BTB: It's basically like the cherry on top because I wanted to have a very active year. Even coming into this year before any of my projects dropped, I sat back and realized I haven't put out an album in 22 months before Everybody Can't Go. So I wanted to do the direct opposite. I wanted to flood the market so Everybody Can’t Go, Summertime Butch, Buffalo Butch, then Stabbed & Shot 2. That's just like the perfect way to end the year.
How would you parallel your run in 2018, when you released Stabbed & Shot, to this year? 2018 was a very critical year in both of your careers and 2024 has been your most visible.
BTB: Man, it's like we in a time machine. If you say it was six years ago, one of our most dominant years, and look up, we still doing the same sh*t six years later in the best shape of our lives. So it's almost a testament to the hard work, the perseverance that we got and the determination. We could do this next year too, if we wanted to.
The comparisons to Styles P and Jadakiss are littered across the album. They even appeared on Stabbed & Shot in 2018. After working with them, how was it trying to channel that energy onto this project?
BTB: I mean, basically, we are who we are, you know, I mean, and we’ve definitely been influenced by those dudes, man, to Infinity and Beyond. I'm saying to the 10th power, we've been influenced by them. But we are confident that we trailblazed this back-and-forth lane ourselves. We’re confident that people hold us high up there in the ranks. We confident that it's a back and forth duo who aspired to be better than me and Spesh. We set the stone with that sh*t, going back and forth with them, you know what I'm saying that? But I think we could carry it ourselves, and we veterans in this game at this point too.
38: Agreed.
Is there a particular back-and-forth between Styles P and Jadakiss that you two hold dear to your hearts?
38: Man, most of the time, they go crazy every time, you know what I'm saying? Every time.
BTB: 100%
38: I remember the first time when I lost my mind probably was “Banned From TV” when they went back-and-forth. Then, it was a joint off of the Ruff Ryders album called “Dope Money.” That was my sh*t.
BTB: Those are probably my favorites up there. I was definitely going to say “Banned From TV” but that “Dope Money”–
38: Oh my God.
BTB: That sh*t was crazy. “We Gonna Make It,” can’t forget that. Can’t forget that.
38: “We Gonna Make It,” yeah. By the time “We Gonna Make It” came out, we already knew what they did.
BTB: Facts.
On “Jesus Arms,” Busta Rhymes says, “A lot of you better start rethinking your top five.” I know this is not the first time you guys have heard that from the legends, but how does it feel, even to this day and everything you guys have accomplished, hearing the pioneers and the bricklayers of this sh*t your praises in that sort of way?
38: Well, that's one of the best feelings that come with this sh*t. It will always be appreciated to hear one of the pioneers give respect. Besides everything else, that's all we really wanted before money. Before we even knew what money was, all we wanted was for them to let us know that we was good at what we did. So, that never leaves. That never leaves.
BTB: When you watch people ball out and do this, when they respect your jump shot, that's a different kind of feeling. That's definitely something that I look forward to, besides, you know, the money and the awards. The respect from your own peers, that means a lot.
You’ve done four collaborative projects with each other now: Stabbed & Shot, Stabbed & Shot 2, Trust The Sopranos, and Cocaine Cowboys. How would you rank those projects from one to four?
BTB: I’ma go Stabbed & Shot 1. Then, I don’t know after that. I love Trust The Sopranos. Cocaine Cowboys, it was special. I just feel like Stabbed & Shot 1 is special to me because it's a marker in time. It just set the pace for what me and Spesh was about to do. And I feel like all of those albums are special because we put a lot into all of those, so it's kind of hard to rank them. But I just know the first Stabbed & Shot is super special to me, because it's just a marker in time, and it put everybody on notice, because they knew this day was coming. They knew we was about to leave a whole bunch of sh*t in our path. They knew he's about to tear sh*t up so that's a special one for me.
38: Yeah, I feel the same exact way. Stabbed & Shot 1 was like the beginning of the start of me taking this serious in the next level. And it was kind of like my introduction to this lane. That sh*t is definitely number one. It's hard, like he said, to rank any of them other projects, but, you know, Stabbed & Shot 1 is definitely the significant one.
Benny, before we go, I wanted to ask you about the Drake collaboration. It’s been one of the most sought after records in your unreleased catalog and finally dropped over the summer before it was removed from DSPs. How did you feel about it finally hit streaming services and what was your reaction once it was removed?
BTB: I feel good to hit streaming services. I like dropping new music, getting people's reaction, especially something fully loaded with bars like that. And, how I felt when I when I got took him down–I really didn't feel how the people felt. Because I knew it was a possibility that that might happen. I was prepared for that already. So when it happened, I ain't take it hard like that. You know, this game is full of loopholes and yellow tape that you got to crawl through to make certain sh*t happen. He just wasn't able to make that happen. But, you know, no love lost for Drake and his team and no shit like that. You know, it's just business and it's just music, you know what I'm saying?
What can fans expect from both of you before the year ends?
BTB: What you got? What you working on over there, Spesh? You got some secret projects over there that you’re producing?
38: For the end of this year, it's just about Stabbed & Shot 2. Next year? I'm loading up for next year. Next year, it's gonna be a bunch of sh*t coming, but I don't think I'm releasing nothing else this year. I'm not sure.
BTB: Me too. I'm on the same page. It’s all Stabbed & Shot. If we feel like really getting in the booth and releasing another single, just because but Stabbed & Shot 2 going to hold people down for the rest of the year, I believe.
38: Facts.